Note: Further stories and testimonials should be placed in the discussion section below.

Of course they can. Consider narcissists, for instance:

Narcissists attract abuse. Haughty, exploitative, demanding, insensitive, and quarrelsome � they tend to draw opprobrium and provoke anger and even hatred. Sorely lacking in interpersonal skills, devoid of empathy, and steeped in irksome grandiose fantasies � they invariably fail to mitigate the irritation and revolt that they induce in others.

Successful narcissists are frequently targeted by stalkers and erotomaniacs � usually mentally ill people who develop a fixation of a sexual and emotional nature on the narcissist. When inevitably rebuffed, they become vindictive and even violent.

From my perspective, HELL NO!!!

I've have been, and still live with an abusive spouse. At this point in our lives (14 years), she doesn't lose it over the trivial stuff so much anymore - but boy WHEN IT HAPPENS!!!

This is a behavioral problem on part of the abuser, which I've learned doesn't dissipate, but only changes form. The transition period between those stages is a nightmare. I never thought in a million years that I would have to worry about my 'Queen of Fullness' balling up her fist and busting my face up, or slamming a heavy bar mug against my head (and I see this scar which I NEVER mention EVERY DAY - mind you).

I've been through nearly EVERYTHING you see on http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/ over this time period in my life with her. It has caused me:

- General health problems

- Years of sleepless nights and poor eating habits

- EXCESSIVE marijuana and cigarette smoking

- And yes, shamefully, sexual relations outside of the marriage

- I'm the one who had to attend the Domestic Violence courses.

- HELL-OF-A-LOT-MORE HEARTACHES!!!

And hey... lemme tell ya... when you THINK someone is toying with your mind... THEY ARE!!! As crazy as it sounds I KNOW she uses people on my job to assist. I can't prove it, I can't give a ton of examples of when I perceived it to be true, but I KNOW she does. She has\had completely destroyed my self-esteem to the point where I'm almost dead inside. I let her.

People would think, looking at us, that we do great. A 'modest' 500K in our home and vehicles and additional real estate. And if I had to live under a ROCK to get her to treat me respectfully FULL TIME...

Ohhhhh, the cheating phase? Yes, approaching our 3rd year together, I freaked out mentally. I was soooo sure that when I left her (in pursuit of a woman who I've seen get her nose broken by her live-in boyfriend - I realize this would never have lasted) that I would never come back. But I did. And because I felt so 'worthy' and 'noble' when I was with the other woman, when that fizzled, I went looking again. And, the change in the wife's behavior was temporary. It wasn't until I realized that for many reasons, I had to make a decision as to whether to stay or leave.

I thought she would change. I was SOOOO IN LOVE before, and I wanted it back.

And she did - a little. Again, abuse doesn't dissipate, it just changes forms. Until now I thought 'well this attitude and action isn't as bad'. The clubbing me REDUCED, but clubbing in the other sense INCREASED dramatically (more later).

I stopped the cheating. I even confessed to what I had done with no requested detail coveted. I thought I could 'regain my honor'. I just could not live with myself. Funny thing, right when I made the decision to stop, she started... and with women. This was revealed the other day during a 'deep convo'. 10 years have passed since she mentions the first time, and last week Sunday the most recent. All this unraveled when I caught her with her finger between her friends wet ones at the end of a pool party at the house last summer.

Now, you might say 'Well that's what you deserve'. My response is TRY LIVING THROUGH WHAT I'VE LIVED THROUGH BEFORE YOU JUDGE!!! Really, I felt she would cheat in return, but I also felt like it was unfair for her to do it. People (or more directly 'she') would say "That's what YOU did, its what YOU wanted, none of that is my responsibility." When I look back (which she refers to as 'living in the past' although the past is just a watered down 'version of the present day') - I can't help but ask myself why I am still here? And she takes ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR "What I did", or why I have these feelings or NOTHING - this is NOT meant to be a paraphrase. I cant really say its because we were arguing at the time, her behavior shows it to be her thoughts on the matter.

Arguments and disagreements... Sure, bring them on. But with her it can be scary. I consciously move around so I can be in 'jump back space' whenever it gets bad. I shake, I feel like I'm going to keel over and die at those times... not because of the topic at hand, but because I KNOW if I say something that pushes her over my glasses might get knocked off my face. And she likes to get IN my face on top of that.

I've let her use my deepest fear of losing my family (or what I could salvage) against me, personal guilt and all. Nowadays 'I'm crazy'... she once had me take a piss test for crack.

Then, I get "Hey you just watch, we're going to be rich".

Then I get "You're right. I DON'T respect you. You know why...?"

That will eventually be followed by why I suck at this or that and didn't finish college or nurture a successful business idea.

The whole while defending myself with "Plenty of people don't have degrees" and then "I thought this argument was about.... NOT my college degree" "I beat Bush in the tech arena" crying bull.

That's followed by the whole "How my failure to complete college relates to my inability to keep a job or 'handle responsibility'; always dwelling in the past"

Followed by how she is so 'positive' and spiritual and how I only think of the negative

Finally, if it's not a "SCREW YOU TOO" attitude floating around, I MIGHT get "Well... I DO want to go out tonight though baby" - This is the last straw for me... its been 10 years of Friday Saturday and possibly Sunday nights out until 6-7AM.

This is the closest (writing this post I mean) I've come to professional help since our failed marriage counseling sessions of which - they are right - not only was a waste, but MADE THINGS WORSE ('We've been there' type attitude).

The abusee lives in the past, because the abuser will always be abusive. The roles DON'T change. The abusee, if NOW capable for whatever reason, gathers the inner-strength to free themselves, that's what will happen. They have to be strong enough to STAY GONE. Otherwise, you WILL become dependent on the abuser, because they instill the thought that you cant make it without them. You will feel USED UP. TRAPPED. As a man, I guarantee you will hurt her badly if she doesn't get you first.

For like the Nth time, they WON'T, they CAN'T make that change. It's THEM and part of WHO THEY ARE. MAYBE when they meet the next potential mate, it will be better controlled. But if you've been in it as long as I have, I feel its unrecoverable. I hate my marriage and resent what its done to me (and her, believe it or not) over the years. I'll be 35 soon and I'm just getting TOO OLD FOR THIS CRAP.

LEAVE!

I try to sit back and go over all the things considering abuse. Our modern world has it's good points and bad, and people are very stressed out these days ... no job security, great pay fluctuations, trying to buy a house, trying to keep your house and raising kids. It's tough! When the pressure hits some people over and over again and they never seem to get a break tempers can fly. It's tough being "all things" to your mate and none of us are perfect. Words can be said we don't mean or even a slight push during an argument. At some point in EVERY person's life and for what they consider survival instincts they will use a person to a degree by picking that person's weak points and aiming right for it. We have all been there at least once whether we want to admit it to ourselves or not. Most of us move on from this, but many do not and thus, the abuser is born.

If you live with an abuser, but they are not physically abusive (therefore there isn't much to fear, but having your feelings hurt from miserable comments directed at you or embarrassing moments around family and friends) then that survival instinct will kick in sooner or later and the abused person will fight back. This is a no win situation and by fighting back you have to stoop to the level of your abuser and thus, you become not only the victim of mental abuse, but also an abuser yourself. Abusers have a lot of self control issues going on in their heads and percieve the world differently than many of us do and so it's his/her way and no other way. You can't change an abuser yourself and unless they are willing to seek out professional help they will never change.

It's best to leave an abuser before you become one yourself.

Marcy

Well being in an abusive relationship myself and not coming from any previous consistently abusive environments--it was hard for me to recognize the relationship as abusive. It started out very subtely and eventually become very blatant and physical to myself and to my child--that is when I had enough!!!!

I agree with the previous person that we all do and say things we regret later--but most of us recognize it and go forth with apologizing and making amends. It is the abuser who doesn't recognize their behavior as such and will live in denial. They are seeking to obtain control in just about every facet of their partner's life and in doing so they are destroying the relationship and their partner's self esteem. They are more concerned with their own needs and desires and cannot/do not express individuality, automony, or separateness from their partner.

So, to finally answer your question: I don't believe one can be and abuser and an abusee. Since abuse is generally all about control and power over an abuser and abusee cannot coexist. If one were and abusee they are not seeking power/control. However, one who has continually been abused may take on abusive behavior themselves, especially toward their abuser and even in other relationships. Although this is inappropriate behavior and response--Abuse perpetrates abuse---generally. Now, I am not condoning that type of response seeing as we all have choices of how we will behave/speak/think/act.

God Bless

Note: Further stories and testimonials should be placed in the discussion section below.

Of course they can. Consider narcissists, for instance:

Narcissists attract abuse. Haughty, exploitative, demanding, insensitive, and quarrelsome � they tend to draw opprobrium and provoke anger and even hatred. Sorely lacking in interpersonal skills, devoid of empathy, and steeped in irksome grandiose fantasies � they invariably fail to mitigate the irritation and revolt that they induce in others.

Successful narcissists are frequently targeted by stalkers and erotomaniacs � usually mentally ill people who develop a fixation of a sexual and emotional nature on the narcissist. When inevitably rebuffed, they become vindictive and even violent.

From my perspective, HELL NO!!!

I've have been, and still live with an abusive spouse. At this point in our lives (14 years), she doesn't lose it over the trivial stuff so much anymore - but boy WHEN IT HAPPENS!!!

This is a behavioral problem on part of the abuser, which I've learned doesn't dissipate, but only changes form. The transition period between those stages is a nightmare. I never thought in a million years that I would have to worry about my 'Queen of Fullness' balling up her fist and busting my face up, or slamming a heavy bar mug against my head (and I see this scar which I NEVER mention EVERY DAY - mind you).

I've been through nearly EVERYTHING you see on http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/ over this time period in my life with her. It has caused me:

- General health problems

- Years of sleepless nights and poor eating habits

- EXCESSIVE marijuana and cigarette smoking

- And yes, shamefully, sexual relations outside of the marriage

- I'm the one who had to attend the Domestic Violence courses.

- HELL-OF-A-LOT-MORE HEARTACHES!!!

And hey... lemme tell ya... when you THINK someone is toying with your mind... THEY ARE!!! As crazy as it sounds I KNOW she uses people on my job to assist. I can't prove it, I can't give a ton of examples of when I perceived it to be true, but I KNOW she does. She has\had completely destroyed my self-esteem to the point where I'm almost dead inside. I let her.

People would think, looking at us, that we do great. A 'modest' 500K in our home and vehicles and additional real estate. And if I had to live under a ROCK to get her to treat me respectfully FULL TIME...

Ohhhhh, the cheating phase? Yes, approaching our 3rd year together, I freaked out mentally. I was soooo sure that when I left her (in pursuit of a woman who I've seen get her nose broken by her live-in boyfriend - I realize this would never have lasted) that I would never come back. But I did. And because I felt so 'worthy' and 'noble' when I was with the other woman, when that fizzled, I went looking again. And, the change in the wife's behavior was temporary. It wasn't until I realized that for many reasons, I had to make a decision as to whether to stay or leave.

I thought she would change. I was SOOOO IN LOVE before, and I wanted it back.

And she did - a little. Again, abuse doesn't dissipate, it just changes forms. Until now I thought 'well this attitude and action isn't as bad'. The clubbing me REDUCED, but clubbing in the other sense INCREASED dramatically (more later).

I stopped the cheating. I even confessed to what I had done with no requested detail coveted. I thought I could 'regain my honor'. I just could not live with myself. Funny thing, right when I made the decision to stop, she started... and with women. This was revealed the other day during a 'deep convo'. 10 years have passed since she mentions the first time, and last week Sunday the most recent. All this unraveled when I caught her with her finger between her friends wet ones at the end of a pool party at the house last summer.

Now, you might say 'Well that's what you deserve'. My response is TRY LIVING THROUGH WHAT I'VE LIVED THROUGH BEFORE YOU JUDGE!!! Really, I felt she would cheat in return, but I also felt like it was unfair for her to do it. People (or more directly 'she') would say "That's what YOU did, its what YOU wanted, none of that is my responsibility." When I look back (which she refers to as 'living in the past' although the past is just a watered down 'version of the present day') - I can't help but ask myself why I am still here? And she takes ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR "What I did", or why I have these feelings or NOTHING - this is NOT meant to be a paraphrase. I cant really say its because we were arguing at the time, her behavior shows it to be her thoughts on the matter.

Arguments and disagreements... Sure, bring them on. But with her it can be scary. I consciously move around so I can be in 'jump back space' whenever it gets bad. I shake, I feel like I'm going to keel over and die at those times... not because of the topic at hand, but because I KNOW if I say something that pushes her over my glasses might get knocked off my face. And she likes to get IN my face on top of that.

I've let her use my deepest fear of losing my family (or what I could salvage) against me, personal guilt and all. Nowadays 'I'm crazy'... she once had me take a piss test for crack.

Then, I get "Hey you just watch, we're going to be rich".

Then I get "You're right. I DON'T respect you. You know why...?"

That will eventually be followed by why I suck at this or that and didn't finish college or nurture a successful business idea.

The whole while defending myself with "Plenty of people don't have degrees" and then "I thought this argument was about.... NOT my college degree" "I beat Bush in the tech arena" crying bull.

That's followed by the whole "How my failure to complete college relates to my inability to keep a job or 'handle responsibility'; always dwelling in the past"

Followed by how she is so 'positive' and spiritual and how I only think of the negative

Finally, if it's not a "SCREW YOU TOO" attitude floating around, I MIGHT get "Well... I DO want to go out tonight though baby" - This is the last straw for me... its been 10 years of Friday Saturday and possibly Sunday nights out until 6-7AM.

This is the closest (writing this post I mean) I've come to professional help since our failed marriage counseling sessions of which - they are right - not only was a waste, but MADE THINGS WORSE ('We've been there' type attitude).

The abusee lives in the past, because the abuser will always be abusive. The roles DON'T change. The abusee, if NOW capable for whatever reason, gathers the inner-strength to free themselves, that's what will happen. They have to be strong enough to STAY GONE. Otherwise, you WILL become dependent on the abuser, because they instill the thought that you cant make it without them. You will feel USED UP. TRAPPED. As a man, I guarantee you will hurt her badly if she doesn't get you first.

For like the Nth time, they WON'T, they CAN'T make that change. It's THEM and part of WHO THEY ARE. MAYBE when they meet the next potential mate, it will be better controlled. But if you've been in it as long as I have, I feel its unrecoverable. I hate my marriage and resent what its done to me (and her, believe it or not) over the years. I'll be 35 soon and I'm just getting TOO OLD FOR THIS CRAP.

LEAVE!

I try to sit back and go over all the things considering abuse. Our modern world has it's good points and bad, and people are very stressed out these days ... no job security, great pay fluctuations, trying to buy a house, trying to keep your house and raising kids. It's tough! When the pressure hits some people over and over again and they never seem to get a break tempers can fly. It's tough being "all things" to your mate and none of us are perfect. Words can be said we don't mean or even a slight push during an argument. At some point in EVERY person's life and for what they consider survival instincts they will use a person to a degree by picking that person's weak points and aiming right for it. We have all been there at least once whether we want to admit it to ourselves or not. Most of us move on from this, but many do not and thus, the abuser is born.

If you live with an abuser, but they are not physically abusive (therefore there isn't much to fear, but having your feelings hurt from miserable comments directed at you or embarrassing moments around family and friends) then that survival instinct will kick in sooner or later and the abused person will fight back. This is a no win situation and by fighting back you have to stoop to the level of your abuser and thus, you become not only the victim of mental abuse, but also an abuser yourself. Abusers have a lot of self control issues going on in their heads and percieve the world differently than many of us do and so it's his/her way and no other way. You can't change an abuser yourself and unless they are willing to seek out professional help they will never change.

It's best to leave an abuser before you become one yourself.

Marcy

Well being in an abusive relationship myself and not coming from any previous consistently abusive environments--it was hard for me to recognize the relationship as abusive. It started out very subtely and eventually become very blatant and physical to myself and to my child--that is when I had enough!!!!

I agree with the previous person that we all do and say things we regret later--but most of us recognize it and go forth with apologizing and making amends. It is the abuser who doesn't recognize their behavior as such and will live in denial. They are seeking to obtain control in just about every facet of their partner's life and in doing so they are destroying the relationship and their partner's self esteem. They are more concerned with their own needs and desires and cannot/do not express individuality, automony, or separateness from their partner.

So, to finally answer your question: I don't believe one can be and abuser and an abusee. Since abuse is generally all about control and power over an abuser and abusee cannot coexist. If one were and abusee they are not seeking power/control. However, one who has continually been abused may take on abusive behavior themselves, especially toward their abuser and even in other relationships. Although this is inappropriate behavior and response--Abuse perpetrates abuse---generally. Now, I am not condoning that type of response seeing as we all have choices of how we will behave/speak/think/act.

God Bless

Well this is a difficult question because it is difficult to break the cycle of violence/abuse. Usually, the abuser was abused themselves or grew up around abuse. They may think that it is normal or they may not even recognize that their actions are acceptable. I would advise you to seek out a Victim's Advocate for information; you will be able to ask specific questions and get answers as to the resources out there to help both abusee and abuser. I would say that a tremndous amount of counseling will be required if the couple is to stay together. Or use of the justice system in the form of restraining orders, arrest, or breaking up.

Well, a young lady that I attended middle and high school with was in a relationship for 2 years before her relationship became abusive. She was 20 and studying psychology at a state university when her boyfriend would beat her physically and emotionally. She realized this all too late, after a while he started to abuse her even more and local law enforcement became involved. For a while they had more and more reports of domestic violence. She could not take it anymore and while he was in jail, she broke it off. Without the necessary help (i.e Victim advocate & counseling for both) she is now dead as of a week ago. He beat her badly and left her to bleed to death in her college apartment. She was found by a few friends that found it unusual that she could not be reached. He never voluntarily turned himself in, but he was picked up by the police in an unrelated matter and investigators uncovered that he murdered this young woman (22 years old) who had so much ahead of her.

Even I am trying to find an answer to this i.e if there is an answer. My husband punched me on the eye 4 yrs ago and I forgave him thinking it to be an out of the ordinary incident.Silly me!And believe me there was no mention of it from either end for almost 2 yrs,it was like the night mare was over but then the abuse returned initially in the form of blame shifting,progressed to threats and then on suspicion of me freaking out with my much younger nephew!! But as stated by the researches I forgave him once again...but things were never normal again.I had that constant fear at the back of my mind.My life had changed completely.I had started avoiding my family,had begun to limit my social conversations as in I had stopped making any kind of contacts with anyone at all.All of a sudden the chirpy,full of life human being was replaced by asocial person.I had begun to stay indoors most of the time.Anytime I had to go anywhere he had to bethere with me..no i don't think that it was out of compulsion but somehow that's how it had become.If I went to my parents place alone, I would be all the time worried about reaching back home on time so that I was there around him to serve him food, to sit besides him while he watched tv...and so on.

I am out of it now.I have separated from my husband and would be filing for the divorce soon and I could come to this decision only after I made his abuse public.it was only then I realised that none of it was my fault, that I wan't responsible for anything that happened.I realised there was no shame in accepting that u were abused and also that I did not deserved to be treated that way at all.I realised how special I am and no matter how good and sincere I would be the things will never change.

So, the point is that the abusive relationships can never be fixed.The problem is not in the relationship the problem is that person and that perosn will never change.he may change momentarily and forget about the abuse meted out by him but the abusee can never forget it,for the abuse was a attack on her sel-respect,her beliefs,her faith,her dreams,her values...No,it can never be fixed.If we stay with the abuser the thought of the abuse makes us hate him and ourselves a bit more everyday and it starts reflecting in our behaviour in someway or the other...and the abused are always unhappy and don't u feel that we owe it to ourselves to keep our self-esteem intact,don't we deserve to be treated with respect?Don't we have the right to be happy?

hi I'm a 24 year old male this might sound wierd but I'm the abuser and i want it to quit i don't beat her or anything but there are a few times that it got rough and this last time I hit her to hard and I need help. We love each other with all of our hearts and I know there is NO reason i should ever put my hands on her but I did and I'm scared that I lost her forever I'm starting classes on this and I pray to God that it works.I need one more chance to prove it to myself,her,friends,familiy,ect.I know that some guys are way worse than me and I do not want to get that way.I love my familiy and I never in my life thought that I would do this.And I know most people say to get out of that kind of relationship,but I know I can change for myself and her.I will spend this rest of my life making it up to her.And for someone that is to far in to the abusive relationship please leave before something bad happens.I think I'm at a point in life were I can try to fix this the problem is getting her to believe me,and it kills me to know that I may have lost her forever.To all of the woman going through this I'm very sorry and I hope that you find the right path in life and hang in there.

You can NEVER ever change an abuser. Haven't you heard? you can never change a man unless he is in his diapers. I have seen it. Witnessed it but not experienced it. WALKAWAY!!!!!. That's that.

To the 24 yr old male-- Its not crazy I admire you Im going through the same thing right now. In a world with Chris brown we all know what it looks like to be that monster but so few can tell it from the shoes of an alleged. There minimal information on the internet that support the other side of the coin. Forthcoming with acknowledgement of my own faults I too want to seek help. I'm going to lookin into rage-a-holic annonymous because Although some articles I read say 'they blame it on rage' I have had incidents where Id argue with my parents and start trashing my room and kicking furniture. I need help because it is ruining my life and my relationship. I wish there was more advice about fixing an abusive relationship then just safe ways to leave it. ;\

Answer

I think in most cases the individuals who say that people cannot change their abusive ways are right. However, I do not believe that no one can change. That is like saying that gambling, alcohol and drug addictions cannot be helped. If the individual is commited to changing his behaviour and is willing to put the necessary time and effort into healing himself; I believe it can be done. I am an abuser. Verbal and in a few cases the verbal escalated to physical. It is only after a session of therapy and research that I realized how serious verbal abuse can be on your victim, short term and long term. My wife and partner of 5 years is taking the steps to leave me. This is my rock bottom. Regardless if she stays or leaves I know what I need to do to become a better person. If she wants to stay with me and help me get through this as long as there are no more incidences I would greatly appreciate it if she doesn't, I unerstand her.

There needs to be better resources for people who want help. Communities as a whole will benefit. Knowing there is help out there for abusers is just as important than for abusee's. If the victim leaves the relationship and many times the incidence of verbal abuse is not reported or not taken seriously enough, although the damage can be severe, the abuser will find another victim.

Here is more information:

• Well I came here to look for answers for myself. I am a man and feel as if i am being abused and it hurt me to read all there was on this subject. Everything read He, Him, Himself. Why is it always asummed that the one doing the abusing is a man. I am a man that is hurting right now and I can't find anything that puts the right shoe on my foot. Everything points to the man being the abuser. Why is this, why can't I find any help as the one being abused. Help.

• I am in the same situation as you are. What I do is just mentally replace HE with SHE.

• The emotional abuser gets "control" of your entire being. Without it they are "out of control". My step-son is in such a marriage. Beverly Engel must have known his wife - she had too - how else could she have written the book on the abuse she dishes out. I beg him to call the abuse hotline. He's so unhappy. He just wishes she would change - which we know won't happen. It's the saddest thing to see happen to someone you love so much. Being an abused male is not uncommon - it's just not talked about because men are suppose to be "macho". Speak up men! Speak out! My step-son talks to us often about his home life. But he needs someone other than us to talk too. I wish each and every one of you success in your relationships. We ALL deserve happiness.

• First and foremost they gain CONTROL control over your whole being. The moment this is taken away, by you leaving for instance they alter, say they want to change, that they are sorry to give them a second chance that they realise it was their fault. trust your instincts LEAVE , for they are just FILLING YOU WITH WORDS IN ORDER TO GAIN BACK THE CONTROL. abusers don't change they continue the cycle.

• If you notice in most of my posts regarding abuse I put "spouse" or he or she. I do work for a Women's Abuse Center in Canada and there are groups for men. I teach the abused women there when I speak with them that men often are abused as well. They are surprised to say the least. Mind you, the percentage is higher for women who are abused because there is simply more of us. The reason men slip through the cracks of being the ones abused is the fact that life has lead both sexes to believe men are the dominant of the two. Places like the Women's Center are re-educating people regarding men being abused and we are working on helping them as well. Most men are brought up by their parents that they should never strike or push a women and most men follow this rule to the letter. They can often go with a girlfriend or marry a woman that is verbally, physically abusive or even both. Many people feel that men can protect themselves from a woman's abuse, but not true! If a woman hits a man (and I've seen plenty of that) with an object, in most cases the man will take the abuse. Where does he go to get help? What would his buddies think of such a thing? The male is often left feeling frustrated and alone because he feels that no one will ever understand why he can't fight back. The point of it all is, if you did fight back you would become abusive yourself. Phone your Mental Health and tell them what is going on. They will lead you to groups that can help you deal with the problem. Just as I often say to women facing abuse from a man, get on that phone and get some help to get away from this person. If children are involved in your relationships it's extremely important that until your abusive wife gets help you take the children along with you because if you don't the already frustrated and angry wife will take it out on the kids and you can bet your money on that one. I don't know if the men on this board are aware of the fact that if your spouse hits you in any way you can actually phone the police and have her arrested! Yes, you heard me right. I've seen it over and over. For the first offence the woman is held for 24 hours in jail. If her spouse has been badly abused (hit with a hard object, has broken bones, bruises, welts, etc.) the male victim can persue this and take her to court. Just wanted you to know that some of us on this board do realize that men can be abused both verbally and physically.

• You bring up a good point. I don't think that everyone here "assumes" that men are all abusers or that men, in general, are bad. In forums such as this one, I would tend to think that more women than men write and share their experiences. This is true in real life as well. Also, battered women rarely speak up about their experiences until they get out of the bad situation. It's even rare for a battered woman to open up and talk about her experience(s) on an anonymous chat board. Typically, men are more likely to keep emotions inside (not a sterotype, but rather a fact). When it comes to opening up about something as personal and emotionally/physically painful as abuse, I would think that even the incredibly small number of women who decide to talk about it still outnumber the number of men willing to talk about it. Hence all the "he's" and "hims" on this board. NO ONE deserves abuse. Male OR female. Physical, verbal or emotional. NO ONE has the right to abuse you. NO ONE has the right to lay a hand on you out of anger or without your consent. And NO ONE has the right to make you feel bad about yourself, less than human or less than what God originally intended. My advice (for what it's worth) is for you to replace the "hims" and "he's" with "hers" and "she's" (when reading about abuse, victimization and recovery) to work through your situation and succeed in healing (notice the word "succeed"). See the posts as being written from the perspective of the writer, which will (as I said above) be a female victim talking about a male abuser and not an across the board opinion of abuse or of all men.If you read some of these posts, you will know that you are definitely among friends here. And do you realize, by writing what you wrote here, that you may have helped or will help another abused man in healing and recovery?

• Men are definitely not the only ones dishing out abuse. This is a human affliction, not a gender affliction. But men probably struggle with coming to realization that they are being controlled or manipulated. It does in fact happen. I know. I fell deeply in love with my current wife, immediately. None of us are perfect and we all will have moments of bad behavior I am sure. But abuse is just at least a knotch above and seems to be insidiously pathological. My wife is a Pentecostal Christian and invited me to come to a meeting at a local home. Away we went. The host claimed to be a "prophet" who was hosting a "faith healer". I watched and attended the whole meeting. On the way home my girlfriend who is now my wife asked me what I thought. I said something to the effect of "That was interesting and I don't think I swallowed one bit of that performance. Especially the part where after being faith healed for a chronic sore back the individual procalaimed that they thought it felt a *little* better" She proceeded to tear an absolute strip off of me, lecturing me on Christianity and morality in general. I was aghast to say the least and a little indignant that I did not get my intellectual discussion with my girlfriend. The danger sign in all of this that looking back tells me is that it was all my fault and was left that way, primarily out of her asserting a moral perjorative.

• I don't know what they get out of abuse. But my husband was so nasty that he could not take my independence. He could not take it that I was thinking and challenging him. I am still in the process of getting out of the battering. Only God can help me get out of it completely.

• One poster mentioned it was just not men and women that were abused and that is so true. Children, the elderly and even pets can be abused. Having studied abuse and helping abused individuals, I find that abusers usually come from an abusive environment themselves. It has nothing to do with whether they are highly educated or if they have a low education; race, poor/rich has nothing to do with it. Abusive people somewhere along the line feel they can't express what they really feel so they harbor these feelings until they go off like a bomb (and all do.) A person may have grown up in a family with no abuse, but somewhere in their childhood their peers (sometimes bullies) or even in the workforce, the individual feels picked on, duped and left out of society as a whole. They often end up with the lack of confidence, feel they should be better that they are and basically feel like a failure. Believe it or not for a high percentage of abusive individuals they hate themselves for what they do, but they are like a runaway locomotive and can't seem to stop. Thus, they live in a bubble and control those around them and that involved their spouse, children and even the family pet! It is more likely that abusive women will go for counseling then abusive men. Another poster brought up the fact that some abused women are more open about speaking of their abuse either during or after, while men are more apt to hold this secret within them not knowing where to turn for help and that is true. Men feel if they go to a psychologist, report their wife to the police, etc., they will be "found out" and considered weak or a fool. Not true! Each case is very individual and can vary. I have a friend whose son is married to a very abusive partner. One night in bed he was woken by a shock from a blow to the nose. As he staggered into the onsuite bathroom to see what had hit him (it was his wife and she was drunk) she came up behind him with a golf club and nailed him behind the knees. He hit the floor like a rock. As soon as he could gather his composure he headed for the phone and called the police. His wife was taken away in handcuffs and her husband let her cool her heels over night in jail. When she got home he told her that if she ever hit him again he would press charges and take her to court and that would be the end of their marriage. He offered to back her if she wanted psychological counseling, but she refused. She stopped the physical abuse, but she is now into emotional abuse and practices it often. For those men out there that take physical or emotional abuse you have the right to seek legal counsel and get away from this abusive relationship, just like a woman has a right. Abuse applies to EVERYONE on this board be it a woman, man, child, the elderly or even someone mistreating their pet.